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Ok so, hello everyone listening, this is obviously Everscale incubator. I belive we're on show number one.
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I'm speaking today with Norton who is bringing his project to us, Fidosafe
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So hi Norton. Good to have you here! Would you introduce yourself?
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Yes, sure, Ben, thanks for providing the stage
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for presenting my project, actually cannot
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say much about myself, like I'm ordinary guy
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developer, crypto enthusiast, and, yes, I'm like
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keeping an eye on the Everscale blockchain
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for a while, but did not have a chance to
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find applicable cases that I can implement
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but, yes, recently I've found a niche
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that sounds interesting to me, and today I would like to
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say a few words about this niche, describe the target
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audience, its pains, its needs, and share
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some insights, and, actually, like it
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was the grounds for, this project,
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01:28.1
Fidosafe, that I'll also maybe share
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01:33.0
during this broadcast. Ok, well, in this case
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01:37.9
I think we should probably dive straight into it and
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01:42.8
... doing a screensharing
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so can everyone see that pitch there on the screen if I've shared the right screen?
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Yes, I guess the wrong screen, it is a website page
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Wrong screen? Yeaw. Here we go. Yes. Go to... We've got the infinite loop, I apologise guys.
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let's close that down. More used to working with
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Zoom, yeah. Yes, me too, that's why I didn't want to share.
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there we go. so. can everyone see the pich?
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We should see Fidosafe
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on the screen. Yeah, I do.
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Ok, excellent. Let's just quickly roll through this
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02:41.6
We won't going through every point on the document, as I've got a few questions, I'll try to keep it
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02:46.5
a little more informal, but yeah, obviously, if you could give us just
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02:51.4
a very quick high-level interview of what is Fidosafe.
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Hm, ok, just to warm up
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I would like to say a few words about the name, so the name originates from
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actually Latin, and Fido means the first person
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verb, like "I trust",
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like the safe that I trust, Fidosafe, but recently
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somebody shared a reference that there is a famous player
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chess player, Vladimir Fidoseev, and yes,
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from that time, when I hear Fidosafe, I think about chess.
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This is a very hot topic with the World Championship
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of course. Yeah, uh. But basically in a nutshell
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this is a service, webservice where
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actually people can jointly
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manage their financial resources, so that we would have
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multiple custodians using different wallets who can sign transactions
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and perform some operations as community
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as DAO, yeah.
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Touching into your first point, who is this product aimed at?
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who is going to use Fidosafe?
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Yeah,it might
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sound surprising
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that there are some B2B tools around on the market
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so not only personal accounts in crypto nowadays but also business
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accounts start start penetrating the crypto surface
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more and more, and of course market starts preparing
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some tools for catering to these accounts. THat's why I can describe
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these companies as small
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crypto investment firms, or maybe crypto
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brockers, and possibly communities who also come together
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to make financial decisions together, other
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audiences for the shared using are of
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the accounts are for example are miners or exchanges, but they are I guess too big to
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fit the Fidosafe requirements
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so that I would just
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limit the users to
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small and medium crypto businesses theat we will call crypto funds
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or crypto firms. Ok, so essentially blockchain
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centric small and medium enterprises and businesses which have to
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follow more formal path. Yeah. And so, again, this is a very nicely laid out slide presentation, what is it that there is a need
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that will why they are ready products that use these people
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There are the tools, and the tools serve actually the existing blockchains
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if one of these companies
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would like to start their operations on Everscale, then they would need to
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adjust to also continue
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operations from here, and they could have different options
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that's ok, I've thought someone bombing, now all good
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as you say, this is the solution which
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already exist on the chains in the forms, but there is
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obiously... I'll let you explain aside this slide yourself if you want, existing solutions
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to prepare to this presentation I checked the market
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and tried to find the tools that people use
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and tried to investigate which functionality is built into these
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tools, so that here is my list that originated from
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maybe two hours of searching
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of course there are more solutions on the market, but these are the
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prominent ones, and basing on the
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solutions I can make some assumptions on what these businesses should require
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and the functionality of these solutions is actually
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is pretty much the same, so that if we go
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to maybe the second slide
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that could help us, we will find out that
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in the bare minimum it will require three
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things actually. First: some tools for collective
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decision making, so that multiple custodians can
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vote for this or that or against this or that decision
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then user management, the ability to assign roles
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and to add more people, remove people from
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the list of custodians,
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I mean onboarding and offboarding employees actually
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Sorry, I believe I've got the right temp here, we can kind say an exmple, so that this is actually
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the product doing it here, I belive you've added
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a custodian here as an example transaction you showed me earlier
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Yes, we can see that happening, sorry, carry on...
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... and the third maybe the most tricky
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one is auditing facilities
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the ability to see the historical
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log and be able to understand who did what and when
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and when I started with Everscale,
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I tried a few multisig accounts
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and actually, and none of them had
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open source code, but there were compiled versions
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of these multisig accounts, and using these accounts is
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it was really tricky to understand the history of operations
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maybe it was something wrong with me, but
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I feel total obscurity, that was one of the reasons to actually
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create something where the transactions are obvious
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you can at every moment glance at a transaction and see
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its details and who confirmed or rejected it
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and what was inside this transaction, what operation should happen
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so essentially just comming to this part of the slide
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there are solutions
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which kinda do the task that Fidosafe does, but you do it in more refined
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manner which is more suitable for the target audience you're aiming for here
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Right, actually it is a service, and not a wallet,
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so that users are not obliged to
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to come to this new wallet and operate only in this
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wallet, comparing to, for example, Oberton
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when you need to forcefully switch to this solution
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for all your operations, but instead it is a webservice that uses different wallets
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for a very-very concrete purpose
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for signing multisig transactions and for managing multisig transactions, and for
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managing the related operations, so, yes, on the one hand there are
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wallets that can potentially implement the same
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but it is not their specialization, they are busy with
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other things like implementing DeBots, implementing trueNFTs
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implementing other features, that their customers actually require
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instead, why would they
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turn to some other niche market and start doing something
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different, it does not make sense. Yes of course, I understand that
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completely, that makes a lot of sense, so obviously these
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other solution providers it's an option, it's a feature
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of these products, but it's not their product as you say.
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Yeah, that's brilliant. Comming to the next slide, you've turned this one Pains, obviously,
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so we're just going to touch on these, but what on the Pains like you say your target audience at the moment.
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Yes, also started to
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discuss the pains, but the main pain so actually how to
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proceed with operations when you go to Everscale
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for example, you had Gnosis to govern your operations
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in Etherium, and you just look for the similar stuff
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and you have these four options
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Firstly, you can revive an existing multisig wallet
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and try to somehow operate under it with
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ll its obscurity and limitations, maybe it is possible, it is
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like dooing accounting in Google Spreadsheets, so it is possible, but it
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is not that convenient. Then they could
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implement their in-house solution
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and in this case it would be also ok, but they would need to spend money
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and would need to spend time to implement this
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and the biggest issue is that their code will not be open source
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it will be an in-house solution
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that means it won't be audited, this means it could be possibly prone to
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errors or maybe some hacker attacks
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so they will always run risk of losing their money
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I guess it's not that convenient
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to always live in this risk
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Right, risk is not convenient in that sense
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and the third option is that they can calml wait for somebody
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some authority like Metamask Institutional
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when the biggest vendor implements this
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function for Everscale
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but I guess that unfortunately they would have to wait for a bit while.
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and because
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something very extraordinary should happen
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for these conservative providers to actually onboard
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Everscale, the blockchain that is on the
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three hundred and eighty fourth place?
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why would they? maybe they would, but
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it will require some time, and I have doubts that
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even if they start doing this, they will also look on the market
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for the comparable solutions
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and they would just buy this solution and adjust it
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Of course the technical aspect of Everscale with we're right now would that
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they all gonna require time for beginning integration, so I completely understand what you mean
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to find an alternative and
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a month ago I stumbled upon
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the alternatives, and maybe
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that's why I started to working on this project
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if you know any good alternatives around, please let me know
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It sounds like you're definitely developing something which
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there is a need for at Everscale firm as far as I can see
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so this next slide kinda moves us into more of the overall market
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side of things, I donno if you want to quickly walk us through this one?
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Yes, so the idea for the this slide was
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actually if we have this bere minimum
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in the existing solutions, what if we
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just implement this bare minimum and sit and wait for companies
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to start going into Everscale for their operational activity?
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Sounds like a good plan. But actually not because these B2B vendors
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do not sit on their ass and they also evolve
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and the whole defi
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land and landscape evolves
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so that they develop new and new of working with financial tools
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firstly it was liquidity providing,
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then it was marginal farming,
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then it was this NFT and cross-chain farming
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there were bridges, then there were diferent kinds of protocols
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different kinds of networks, and people get confused
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and they would like some professionals to manage their money
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because they do not want
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to continuesly be fed by more and more information
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and because they get lost, so they want to have professional brockers
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it is the reflection of the mutual funds
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in our real life, so people, the lend their money
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for the interest
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and of course brockers get their percent from
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this money for their operations, so from what I see
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from the communication with the Gnosis team, I recently had the communication,
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the are starting to build the new team which actually focuses on just precisely that
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so they have this Gnosis safe which is a B2B tool
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and they want to make it work for
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the normal users, for the private accounts
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and another thing is SuperDAO
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they raised one million dollars, seed round with lots of funds
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but still it means that this topic
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of actually making joint decisions and creating DAO
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using smart contracts is vibrant currently
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among people so that they easily can
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get investments on the one hand and succeed
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in implementing the solution that users require on the other
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Yeah, of course, well, you've done your homework, always good to say
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so we're gonna talk a bit about
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the future of Fidosafe very quickly
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two steps as I mentioned on my forum thread,
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the first is to actually implement this bare minimum
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with transactions, users and settings, so that every bussiness which wants to start
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their operations on Everscale can start doing this
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with Fidosafe, and step 2 would be to evolve,
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to make it DAO
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where people can profit from these B2B tools
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I see it as
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system where everything is transparent
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you can see how much money you want to lend
20:47.6
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you will see how much money you will get
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after some period, of course your money will be blocked
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for some time, I guess it would be something
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like in real life, when we have only quartely payments
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one per quarter and also
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this smart contract can
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give the transparency
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in terms of how much money these brockers have earned
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and if it is reasonable to stick to them
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21:36.5
or maybe switching to somebody else, like finding another
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company or a firm with better stats.
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Excellent, thanks, very comprehensive slides
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Thank you very much for putting it together and sharing it with us
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Let's take it a little more informally
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I just wannt know a little more about your background
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so you say you're a developer? Not really
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So I must have misinterpreted that.
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I would say that I'm an enterpreneur,
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and what I like to do it actually create
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new value, so I had a history of
22:25.6
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a few startups, and some of them were
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this or that successful
22:35.4
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at least I had tracktion on some of them
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but maybe did some mistakes so that cannot
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bragging about something very familiar that you are all aware of
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The only really failure in life is not trying
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again so... Yes. So waht were these startups?
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23:04.7
Can you give us an idea about these things?
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23:14.5
I would like not to reveal it, sorry. Oh, no, you don't have to tell what the exact product,
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but what areas you were working in? What type of startups? It?
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Funny enough, they were all B2B services, so that it is my
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primary target, I understand
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that it is harder to get B2B accounts
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but as soon as you acquire them, it is easier in
23:44.0
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terms of financials, in terms of statistics, in terms of
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everything, in terms of churn especially. yeah!
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I've worked in a several sales positions in my past, and obviously B2B
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24:03.5
is a much longer pipeline with onboarding, but
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when customers are onboarded, there is much more professional relationship
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24:13.3
so yeah, that's brilliant. Just to kinda verify that.. was it mostly kind of software as a service, sort of things or?
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24:23.1
So you're mostly in a B2B SaaS.
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and so with this project
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have you got a team with you, or you're working on your own? You're outsourcing?
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24:42.7
How is it working there?
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24:47.6
Yeah, currently I work on my own.
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but I cannot call myself a developer because actually I
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24:57.4
don't have technical education in Computer Science
24:57.5
25:02.3
of course I have a great deal of experience in coding, but
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do not have an experience of corporate coding
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25:12.1
so that coding in team and this stuff and
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one of the reasons also to start this product was to
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get acquainted with the blockchain and the technology
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and understand how the smart contracts work on Everscale and
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25:31.7
it was a kinda learning curve
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25:36.6
for me, and the learning curve, so yes, the learning curve for everyone around here I think, I'm still learning every day
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25:46.4
Yeah, I can code, and you can see from
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25:51.3
the repository that yeah, every line of code was written by me
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25:56.2
if you want to spot any refinements
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26:01.1
please let me know
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26:06.0
Excellent, so all your code is in open source, so everyone can have a look at it. Yeah. That's great to know.
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One quick follow-up question from that:
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26:15.8
you say "learning", how long have you been in the space?
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26:20.7
in crypto currency? just out of interest. in crypto, not that long,
26:20.8
26:25.6
I guess from
26:25.7
26:30.5
You know, the last spike
26:30.6
26:35.4
Maybe from the beginning of this year.
26:35.5
26:40.3
Somewhere there in January I hopped into this market
26:40.4
26:45.2
because everything grew.
26:45.3
26:50.1
I wish I'de went in the market in January I told you. That is fantastic.
26:50.2
26:55.0
So regarding Fidosafe, about cold-heart details
26:55.1
26:59.9
about the product, what have you achieved so far, is it a fully-functioning?
27:00.0
27:04.8
Is it ready to go? Where you are at in kinda
27:04.9
27:09.7
MVP roadmap sort of things?
27:09.8
27:14.6
this bare minimum functionality
27:14.7
27:19.5
has this management
27:19.6
27:24.4
transaction management, user management, session management
27:24.5
27:29.3
and also sending value
27:29.4
27:34.2
and the question of sending value is not ready yet
27:34.3
27:39.1
so with onboarding of this feature
27:39.2
27:44.0
I would say that I would have this bare minimum MVP
27:44.1
27:48.9
or course some bells and whistles need to be added
27:49.0
27:53.8
for example validation checks, notifications
27:53.9
27:58.7
about removal and so on
27:58.8
28:03.6
of course users like and developers do not like to implement
28:03.7
28:08.5
but I think in the nutshell
28:08.6
28:13.4
everything is ready besides the transfer transaction itself
28:13.5
28:18.3
Excellent. Apart from items you've just mentioned,
28:18.4
28:23.2
like you say with the transfer transaction
28:23.3
28:28.1
and all these bells and whistles
28:28.2
28:33.0
what are your immediate plans
28:33.1
28:37.9
in terms of one-two-three months
28:38.0
28:42.8
I would say
28:42.9
28:47.7
... onboarding that kind of thing.
28:47.8
28:52.6
I would say that it would not get into
28:52.7
28:57.5
havily into the development
29:02.5
29:07.3
I would start trying to communicate with these companies how actually use
29:07.4
29:12.2
this software in different other blockchains and will try to attract them to Everscale
29:12.3
29:17.1
but for this I would need
29:17.2
29:22.0
this software to adhere to basic requirements
29:22.1
29:26.9
that they will need, and firstly is the security
29:27.0
29:31.8
what I would need
29:31.9
29:36.7
once all the code is ready
29:36.8
29:41.6
it to accomplish a number of code audits
29:41.7
29:46.5
and also publish them and be able to
29:46.6
29:51.4
run some campaign among the community to
29:51.5
29:56.3
encourage reporting bugs
29:56.4
30:01.2
if people see them
30:01.3
30:06.1
Excellent. Just to kinda re-iterate for a people who are really slow on technical side like me, obviously Everscale incubator
30:06.2
30:11.0
it has immediate plans looking for projects to list on DappRadar specifically
30:11.1
30:15.9
would you say
30:16.0
30:20.8
that Fidosafe is 90% ready?
30:20.9
30:25.7
once it has the audits and the transfer function added?
30:25.8
30:30.6
Yes, but you must understand that it takes time
30:30.7
30:35.5
Soon is everyone's favorite word
30:35.6
30:40.4
In Everscale and blockchain projects
30:40.5
30:45.3
but if you put a timeline to this again assuming the best case with this?
30:45.4
30:50.2
Ok, let's divide the things into technical -
30:50.3
30:55.1
implementation, development and verification
30:55.2
31:00.0
and in terms of technical completion I guess
31:00.1
31:04.9
we're no longer than a month away from the publication
31:05.0
31:09.8
in terms of the technicals
31:09.9
31:14.7
we'd be looking, yeah, I'm mustoring to myself, but don't worry, carry on
31:19.7
31:24.5
and in terms of adoption and reviews
31:24.6
31:29.4
and some kind of input from the users, I would say it will also require some time
31:29.5
31:34.3
and of course it depends on the community
31:34.4
31:39.2
so that I would rely on the feedback from the community
31:39.3
31:44.1
Yeah, of course feedback loop, that's brilliant. And so,
31:44.2
31:49.0
We're getting through my questions very and very efficiently, but you're very good at this
31:49.1
31:53.9
What would you say gonna be the biggest hurdles, so what's gonna
31:54.0
31:58.8
be the biggest potential road blocks, stops in your path?
32:03.8
32:08.6
I guess the biggest limiting factor is time of course
32:08.7
32:13.5
because I have 9-to-5 job
32:13.6
32:18.4
and it could have some deadlines, I have family
32:18.5
32:23.3
to manage, and this also means that I'm kind of
32:23.4
32:28.2
vulnerable because I can turn to something else
32:28.3
32:33.1
and won't be able to devote much time
32:33.2
32:38.0
to this product by refocusing on
32:38.1
32:42.9
my work, home, my family, etc., so
32:43.0
32:47.8
that I guess this would be the biggest risk
32:47.9
32:52.7
as in solo-founder startups
32:52.8
32:57.6
in general, and the best way to handle it is
32:57.7
33:02.5
to maybe share
33:02.6
33:07.4
the vision of the next steps and build up a team who can also help
33:07.5
33:12.3
Ok, that leads quite nicely, so what exactly are you
33:12.4
33:17.2
looking to get from the Everscale incubator
33:17.3
33:22.1
what help and support do you really need to take this forward
33:27.1
33:31.9
I would love to have
33:32.0
33:36.8
this problem with the security solved, so that
33:36.9
33:41.7
if it requires some effort from the community members
33:41.8
33:46.6
it would be great as it requires some
33:46.7
33:51.5
costs to perform these audits
33:51.6
33:56.4
also ok, but I would like the community to help me with collecting the
33:56.5
34:01.3
necessary money to accomplish this
34:01.4
34:06.2
so first and foremost in your immediate kinda plan you need some kind of helpie
34:06.3
34:11.1
in terms of auditing costs involved
34:11.2
34:16.0
to be where it needs to be in terms of security. Yes.
34:16.1
34:20.9
the second would be to actually
34:21.0
34:25.8
guarantee to the first users, first commercial users
34:25.9
34:30.7
that this software works as intended, so that I would also like
34:30.8
34:35.6
to have the beta testers program
34:35.7
34:40.5
where people can try it and report whatever they find
34:40.6
34:45.4
for this I would need some PR
34:45.5
34:50.3
to make my product noticed among the people who actually
34:50.4
34:55.2
may need it and be able to
34:55.3
35:00.1
ping me around and join my
35:00.2
35:05.0
Telegram channel or something like that so that they can also contribute
35:05.1
35:09.9
with their ideas, with their features
35:10.0
35:14.8
in terms of the Everscale community
35:14.9
35:19.7
you're speaking with the right man, sure I can help you out as much as possible with that if we go forward
35:19.8
35:24.6
Excellent, so we've got auditing costs, beta testing programs,
35:24.7
35:29.5
these are both the areas where you need support, is there anything else?
35:29.6
35:34.4
Again, immediate.
35:34.5
35:39.3
For immediate I guess yes, for the long-term goals I also
35:39.4
35:44.2
would like to have
35:44.3
35:49.1
this PR support, maybe copywriters help with
35:49.2
35:54.0
articles and publications to forums and catalogs
35:59.0
36:03.8
some help with communicating with some external entities
36:03.9
36:08.7
whe trying to helping get started
36:08.8
36:13.6
with this new blockchain
36:13.7
36:18.5
and ultimately when we have a plan for
36:18.6
36:23.4
the next steps, it would be great to also have a help about team building
36:23.5
36:28.3
but of course it is currently
36:28.4
36:33.2
only on the horizon
36:33.3
36:38.1
not the shirt-term goal. Yes, of course, it sounds like you've got quite a solid plan in place
36:38.2
36:43.0
let's go to the speculative side of things
36:43.1
36:47.9
assuming that everything goes through and well with the Everscale incubator
36:48.0
36:52.8
and you receive all the help you need in the shirt term
36:52.9
36:57.7
let's put a rough date on it, where would you see
36:57.8
37:02.6
the product in terms of usage
37:02.7
37:07.5
consumer customer figures that kind of things
37:07.6
37:12.4
one year from now and three years from now, what would be your very optimistic outlook for this?
37:12.5
37:17.3
not very optimistic but yours
37:17.4
37:22.2
I don't wanna you to sound too sunshining you know, your realistically
37:22.3
37:27.1
best-case scenario
37:27.2
37:32.0
Ok, I guess that even if we
37:32.1
37:36.9
lure even one company
37:37.0
37:41.8
you must understand that their operational volumes
37:41.9
37:46.7
are starting from one million dollars, so that
37:46.8
37:51.6
it would be success to me at least
37:51.7
37:56.5
to have even one corporate client that uses this software on the day-to-day basis
37:56.6
38:01.4
if their volume is like
38:01.5
38:06.3
this 1 mln dollars
38:06.4
38:11.2
than the transactional costs would be
38:16.2
38:21.0
calculation it would be a few
38:21.1
38:25.9
tens of thousands dollars
38:26.0
38:30.8
even this would cover some
38:30.9
38:35.7
budget for bread and butter
38:40.7
38:45.5
ok, one kind of
38:45.6
38:50.4
stickler problem I could see possibly, so you'd need
38:50.5
38:55.3
help with auditing and beta testing and such, would there be any
38:55.4
39:00.2
insurance liability, accountability issues here because obviously as
39:00.3
39:05.1
I understand it's the big part of the institutional need is
39:05.2
39:10.0
that for this accountability, they don't wanna be responsible for
39:10.1
39:14.9
their own keys and own coins. of course,
39:15.0
39:19.8
I guess nobody in crypto is responsible for anything
39:19.9
39:24.7
and every time you use a product, it has a big
39:24.8
39:29.6
disclaimer that "We are not responsible for anything"
39:29.7
39:34.5
and please do your own research, so I guess for these
39:34.6
39:39.4
these tools it is also be the truth
39:39.5
39:44.3
because in the majority of cases
39:44.4
39:49.2
in the similar products the completed code audits
39:49.3
39:54.1
are basically enough to say that the solution is secure
39:54.2
39:59.0
and then users are invited to have their own research
39:59.1
40:03.9
but all the risks are actually on them
40:04.0
40:08.8
ok, and obviously the crypto currency is
40:08.9
40:13.7
ever-changing regulatory landscape
40:13.8
40:18.6
do you see any issues with it at all coming up?
40:18.7
40:23.5
have you already done your homework in
40:23.6
40:28.4
terms of legal due dilligent side?
40:28.5
40:33.3
No, I didn't, and what I see here
40:33.4
40:38.2
it is of course a regulated activity
40:38.3
40:43.1
and the entities which do these kind of
40:43.2
40:48.0
brockership operations, they require some kind of certificates
40:48.1
40:52.9
they are unders some regulations, definitely
40:53.0
40:57.8
but these regulations normally lie
40:57.9
41:02.7
outside of the software they use, for example
41:02.8
41:07.6
they need to have a brockership license, they need some docs
41:07.7
41:12.5
to keep crypto, to sell and buy crypto, but this doesn't
41:12.6
41:17.4
have any connection to the software they use for performing
41:17.5
41:22.3
their operations at least on the surface, hopefully
41:22.4
41:27.2
Yes, of course a little more deepdigging required just in case
41:27.3
41:32.1
but given your knowledge of the landscape this is
41:32.2
41:37.0
forced down to individual liabilities actually
41:37.1
41:41.9
Brilliant, so what we're gonna do, Norton, is we just gonna take
41:42.0
41:46.8
a very quick two-minute break
41:46.9
41:51.7
I'm gonna refill my coffee, and we're gonna see if anyone in the group has any questions for you
41:51.8
41:56.6
let me just find, too many Telegram groups out there
41:56.7
42:01.5
Incubator, so...
42:01.6
42:06.4
any questions?
42:06.5
42:11.3
right, so don't know if you wanna grab yourself a very quick drink, I just gonna go get my coffee up, and we
42:11.4
42:16.2
come back and see if anyone in the group has any questions and see if any more pop up into my little head
42:16.3
42:21.1
In two minutes, right? Yes, just a couple of minutes. Brilliant, speak to you in a moment.
42:31.0
42:35.8
I've got my coffee filled up, guys, I think...
42:35.9
42:40.7
As far as I can see no questions in the group as of yet, so
42:40.8
42:45.6
I believe it was a pretty comprehensive run through today, yeah, anything you'd like to add?
42:45.7
42:50.5
Oh, I'm really excited about your questions
42:50.6
42:55.4
and I think we've covered everything that I wanted
42:55.5
43:00.3
Thank you very much for this deep and detailed interview, you were great, Ben, thanks.
43:05.3
43:10.1
I'm sure you know I used to do slightly frivolous style of hosting
43:10.2
43:15.0
it's been nice having you in a more serious conversation
43:15.1
43:19.9
which is good to expand, it's been a brilliant meeting, Norton,
43:20.0
43:24.8
and I'm very excited to find out how your progect progresses
43:24.9
43:29.7
you have a great rest of your day, thank you for listending a lot
43:29.8
43:32.9
have a great day
