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Hello everyone, this is Carlos speaking today 
I have the honor to be here at VTEX commercial 
headquarters in São Paulo

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and I spoke with Felipe Dellacqua, Corporate 
Sales Director for VTEX and Juliana Secchi, 
partner over at Retail Hub.

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We spoke about the future of malls, how shopping 
malls are adopting technology to go through 
the digital transformation.

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We also spoke about the moment for Shopping 
malls in Brazil

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Brazil really is in a peculiar moment. You 
don’t hear so much that malls are closing 
at the same rate as in the USA

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on the contrary, malls are concerned about 
technology.

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We spoke about the new moment, new buyers, 
millennials, digital transformation

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I truly hope you enjoy the content, so please 
let me know what are your thoughts and do 
you actually think its going to happen

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with shopping malls and how they can adopt 
technology in this new digital era. Hope 
you enjoy it and stay tuned for more.

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Hope you enjoy it and stay tuned for more.Thanks

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Juliana I’d like you to introduce yourself, 
Retail Hub and share a bit of your background 
with us

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I've checked you up on Linkedin, you worked 
as a lawyer, could you share your journey 
with us

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I am a partner at Retail Hub. We are a hub 
of omnichannel solutions and CX.

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we see our company as a “project”

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Why?

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well, our name talks for itself. We are a 
connector of solutions and partners

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so when we position ourselves as a “project” 
we are able to bring together

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adequate partners and support companies on 
their digital transformation journey

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and when speaking of shopping malls, which 
are typically complex projects

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so our partners can understand the magnitute 
of a project as such, which is to change 
the status quo

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of a mall to enable them to offer a digital 
platform

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which will then digitalize and bring higher 
levels of professionalization for stores 
within malls

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As of my background, I was commercial director 
for a mall chain in Brazil

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where I had 6 malls under my umbrella, here 
in Brazil

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and was responsible for the strategy, commercial 
management, anchor stores

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business intelligence, mix, etc.

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and this experience granted me a unique know-how 
to run projects we're running today

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so I can tell you that with my experience 
this is not about opening another "online 
channel"

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but as the digitalization of shopping malls 
as a whole

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and a true enabler for the business as a 
whole

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I was graduated in law school, and have worked 
within the field across multiple areas

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consumer law, international law, tax law, 
contractual law, corporate law

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so I never really fitted in, started working 
within the commercial area

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until I got to work with shopping malls

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so I fell in love with shopping malls, and 
I believe that the current model which shopping 
malls

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operate in today, must change

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Malls and store owners ought to work in collaboration 
like in a real partnership

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so I began to specialize in omnichannel and 
digital transformation

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and how to work as a digital platform, so 
that is about me and Retail Hub

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(Carlos) Impressive CV...

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now Felipe, can you please introduce yourself 
and share a bit about VTEX as well

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My name is Felipe Dellacqua, I’m sales VP 
for VTEX here in Brazil.

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I’m mostly focused on corporate and strategic 
projects for VTEX.

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VTEX is a Brazilian technology multinational 
company was founded in 1999

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and since then we’ve been on this journey 
to spread know-how and transform the digital 
commerce scene here in Brazil,

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we started our international expansion around 
2004 first in Latin America

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and since then we’ve been expanding to other 
regions like North America and Europe

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to export our Brazilian technology to the 
rest of the World.

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speaking of retail, tax challenges amid other 
economic and political volatilities in Brazil

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to do business in Brazil,means to transform 
people and transform entrepreneurs

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Brazil is a very challenging market

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it is common to companies leave Brazil after 
failed attempts to tap into the market

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not necessarily for protectionism, rather, 
for the complexity to operate here

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understanding these challenges and operating 
here for a long time gives us a unique advantage

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in our case, specifically talking about retail,omnichannel 
and digitalization

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I’m a serial entrepreneur since my college 
years I’ve been starting companies

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my first company was a full-service agency 
for digital commerce back in 2006.

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from there I started another consulting company

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and my last enterprise was a technology company 
called Primord, focused only in the fashion 
market here in Brazil

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it was a digital commerce platform like VTEX, 
and we joined forces in 2014 to consolidate 
the fashion market

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and today I'm responsible for Coporate Sales

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and we speak a lot with Juliana to understand 
more about the Shopping mall opportunity

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we're placing heavy bets on the "marketplace" 
category here in Brazil

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due to Amazon, among other large retailers 
that invest heavily in markeplaces

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and we're betting that shopping malls will 
be competing on this new digital era as well

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Cool. So let’s talk about malls. We were 
discussing previously about malls and different 
realities.

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let’s focus on the Brazilian reality and 
eventually give a few inputs on what we hear 
about what happens in North America

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I'd like you both to explore the current 
reality of Brazilian malls.

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in the USA in 2017, last data I checked, 
about 3600 stores shut their operations

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much of them located in shopping malls

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so how about Brazil? do we see many stores 
shutting their operations?

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how about vacancy rates? do retailers fear 
opening stores in shopping malls? what is 
the sentiment?

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Right, before we go on and speak about different 
realities, let's define the concept of shopping 
malls here in Brazil

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So what is a Shopping Mall?

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A mall is a place that gathers a mix of stores, 
can be retailers and/or service providers

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located in a "prime" area, near residential 
or commercial areas.

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differential is the location and the capability 
to deliver a wide and differentiated mix 
to the end consumer

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that was pretty much what they had in the 
USA as well

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but much of what we see or, by contrast, 
what is Amazon has done with these malls 
that closed down?

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they are buying these properties and transforming 
them into intelligent distribution centers

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given that these properties are located close 
to larger regions

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and they are able to combine a certain mix 
of products, and make express deliveries.

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Conversely in Brazil, most shops are located 
in "premium" areas- Juliana can talk more 
about it

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Amazon in 2019 has announced they'll launch 
their own category of products in Brazil

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so not only will they operate as a pure marketplace 
as they've done for the past 2 years

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as they are becoming even more professional 
in Brazil to cater a better experience for 
the end customer

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and when Amazon starts in any country, well, 
they stir the pot

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and we all ask ourselves how is it that they 
going to transform retail in Brazil

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but i also believe in Brazil Shopping malls 
have an opportunity to fight Amazon and Juliana 
can talk about it

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Juliana in your view, what is a shopping 
mall, and please explain how can they be 
competitive?

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Right, like Felipe, suggested, the Brazilian 
and North American realities are different

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In the USA, for example, there are far more 
shopping malls than in Brazil

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in Brazil, we have approximately 570(+) shopping 
malls

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when you look at where shopping malls are 
most profitable it is usually on rents and 
parking lot

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what happens is that loads of people are 
now using ride hailing services (UBER)

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so the revenue of shopping mall parking lots 
which used to be quite high, starts to decrease

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obviously I’m not making any general statements 
here, there are malls and malls

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there are large malls quite well located, 
but there are also smaller and more regional 
malls

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on top of it, there is an issue with rents. 
I cannot make general statements once again, 
but retail has changed

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and emerging technologies have appeared to 
change the game completely

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nowadays you see a consumer with the power 
of choice at the tip of their fingers

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the consumer already is omnichannel

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these factors together affect directly the 
top and bottomline of a shopping mall

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it is common to hear in Brazil, "malls are 
becoming place for experience"

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Cool, so what? experience alone, won't pay 
the bills

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it is important to see the shopping mall 
as a business like any other

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there is a budget to follow, there are bills 
to pay, so that in an of itself has to be 
profitable

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shopping malls have traditionally been built 
as product centric enterprises

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imagine I have a property in a prime location, 
I'll then build a "supermall", offer a great 
experience

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i can also offer an adequate mix

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(Felipe)specific to the right target audience

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(Juliana) precisely...so how it used to work 
in the past

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a mall would "say" I have the best experience, 
target audience and that was enough

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nowadays what basically happens is. If you 
have omnichannel customers, and by the way 
there was interesting research at NRF

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in New York, 29% of the respondents answered 
that regardless the actions shopping malls 
might take, they won’t visit the mall.

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this specific shopper already buys online

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so a mall that operates in analogue mode 
only is automatically telling digital consumers 
that they are not relevant

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because the consumer is saying that there 
is nothing the mall can do that can possibly 
attract them to go there

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means that the mall has to transform itself 
into something more, or malls will no longer 
see this parcel of shoppers, that are quite 
representative

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So the question is: How malls can be relevant 
in the digital era?

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imagine offer the possibility to the consumer 
buy however they want it. If they want to 
research on the internet, that is fine

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if the shopper wants to buy online and pick 
it in-store, also great

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we are talking about large malls, ok?

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we are currently working with Latin America's 
largest mall

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imagine you have to make 3 different purchases 
on the same day...wouldn't it be nice to 
have convenience?

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so to deliver all this convenience and you 
can apply these omnichannel strategies

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to allow shoppers buy however they want it.

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(Carlos) Cool, you've touched some very cool 
stuff there. Now I'd like to question things 
from different perspectives

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both from the perspective of a digital commerce 
platform and yourself

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I recall João ( a VTEX partner) talked about 
legacy systems and things as such as some 
challenges

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for most retailers, I imagine for you too

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but from the perspective of a digital commerce 
platform. Right so you have the shopping 
mall

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which is a marketplace, the mall has several 
tenants within its property

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how do you convince the store owners that 
this can be positive as well?

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and how about the technology challenges to 
implement you solution

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first thing is to think about two main points. 
Shopping malls used to be extremely product-centric

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Today we speak about being customer centric

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therefore, the focus has got to be the customer

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But when you are inside a shopping mall

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the mall basically rents that space for a 
store but the mall knows nothing about their 
customers

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because the customer has the relationship 
with the store

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and due to this lack of relationship with 
the customer plus the flow of people visiting 
the mall

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which in turn prevents the mall from having 
real business intelligence

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provided that the mall would be able to generate 
a huge ammount of data, which can help them 
to

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know their customers and from there and onwards 
they'd be able to offer a true experience

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whether it is mix or services to their end 
consumers

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so shopping malls need to understand they've 
got 2 customers:

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The end customer, the one who buys from stores 
and the tenants who are renting space from 
the mall

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In Brazil today we can see a rapid consolidation 
of back-office systems (ERP)

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there are basically 3 large players in Brazil 
dominating the market

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and the same is happening within the digital 
commerce space, there are basically 3 firms 
dominating the market, VTEX is one of them

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about 4 years we started developing a system 
to transform Walmart into a market place 
in Brazil

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and the system evolved from being a marketplace 
to an omnichannel system.

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integrating this into the same system you 
can basically offer an omnichannel marketplace

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I can have multiple stores within the same 
digital environment, offering a complementary 
mix of products at the same time

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with the convenience of the omnichannel experience, 
allowing the shopper to buy however they 
prefer

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to buy online and pick it in-store or buy 
it in-store and pick at home, and cover all 
needs for the omnichannel shopper

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the millennial shopper decides how they want 
to communicate or interact with a brand and 
we can no longer take that option away

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you cannot change that reality, one can only 
adapt

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and it is impossible to change that fact

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that is why the concept of the Omni-marketplace 
is to offer the possibility for the mall 
to go through the digital revolution and 
be

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capable of facing their competition on equal 
terms against Amazon, B2W, Magazine Luiza 
in Brazil

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because they can offer mix of products, also 
offer express shipping in large regions

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close to residential or commercial areas, 
which is what the shoppers wants nowadays

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but most importantly to show impatient consumers 
that malls can be nimble and solve their 
pain

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no one nowadays likes to use 40 minutes of 
their lives to walk and search for a gift, 
for example.

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the shopper wants to use the smartphone, 
check what and where is readily available 
and purchase it

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but on our terms. This rush a common behavior 
across millenial shoppers

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Juliana, how malls can adapt both in terms 
of technology as well to the behavior of 
the modern shopper

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Perfect, I’ll go back a bit and talk about 
 persuasion ok?.

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What I love about this project is that we 
can think in 2 ways.

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We use these 2 different ways of thinking 
to persuade and show the potential of the 
project as a whole.

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first way of thinking, which I learned with 
the folks from Amazon. Always,always think 
about the customer

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we put the customer at the center of everything 
and think as if we were the shopper.

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for example, say I have a trip tomorrow and 
I need a very specific pair of snickers because 
I'm have to run where I'll travel to

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unfortunately my sneakers were mistakenly 
put to wash,so I have a specific pressing 
need at that moment

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to solve that, I will log on the internet. 
I already know the sneakers I want to buy

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I do my search and have and can see a few 
shops where that pair of sneakers is readily 
available

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the shopping mall is already losing that 
prospect if it doensn't come up as an option

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For the brand from which I’m going to buy 
my sneakers, it doesn’t really matter where 
I'm purchasing it from

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So 1, think like the customer and assess 
the customer journey

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The second is to look for other industry 
benchmarks, as in who's doing and how they 
are doing things

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Despite being an innovative project, I personally 
believe Brazil is quite ahead when it comes 
to this sort of innovation

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we have to look at how Alibaba is doing things.Why 
Alibaba instead of Amazon?

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Because Alibaba invests heavily in malls, 
but not like a logistics hub, rather, as 
a digital enabler for stores.

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Alibaba is a digital platform, they understood 
that customers go through a certain journey

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so they went to the physical world and it 
starts moving towards shopping malls

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a small store that wouldn’t perhaps be capable 
of investing in technology

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apps, analytics, digital signage, etc, so 
Alibaba empowers these stores

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and Alibaba throught their platform enables 
these store owners to digitalize their operation

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look at shopping malls, they are in prime 
 spots,have an audience and a constant stream 
of people

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the question is how can they transform what 
they have into a digital platform to support 
store owners

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because store owners are responsible for 
bringing a large chunk of the revenue for 
the mall

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and if these stores do not become digital 
they lose this potential revenue stream

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several anchor stores are closing shop, and 
malls find it hard eventually to replace 
them for new anchor stores

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as stores cannot sustain their operation, 
and malls cannot easily replace those stores 
for other ones

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malls end up having to create new attractions, 
including different types of experiences

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perhaps creating a co-working area which 
may not be as profitable as other stores 
would be.

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So if we were to design a road map as to 
where we want to get to, and where mall want 
to get to

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I would say the “dream” is for malls to become 
a digital platform;all integrated,business,data,

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marketing intelligence,the possibility to 
have a pro-active management of the mall 
instead of reactive

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about 50% is comprised of regional brands, 
who cannot really afford to invest in technology

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the goal is to have a mall making a pro-active 
management and being a platform that can 
drive traffic

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whether its acquiring traffic online or offline 
and then again avoiding the distinction between 
on and offline.

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Awesome, I got two final questions

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You have an ongoing project, between VTEX 
and Retail Hub

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What I mean is, there is something concrete 
already happening?

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else it just seems we are talking about the 
future, and there is something happening.

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Can you comment more about this project, 
what was the pain that the mall was going 
through

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the challenges, the success and eventually 
who knows this can be replicated in other 
countries...

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and why has the client decided to become 
an ominchannel mall?

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The pain today is common among all shopping 
malls, due to the hybrid model of consumption. 
What Hybrid consumption means?

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a potential client visits a store. She is 
trying clothes on while at the same time 
looks similar options in other shops

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potentially cheaper counting on "same day 
delivery option" in the neighborhood that 
she works or lives in.

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from the moment that you already have a marketing 
investment to drive people into the mall 
but you cannot convert that into sales

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because the hybrid consumption model enables 
the user to compare in real time other cheaper 
options

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it has been proven that consumers even being 
at a mall when offered the digital option, 
they go with the latter.

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there's is a natural migration towards digital 
channels, so why not offer your audience 
to purchase from a digital channel anyway?

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then start learning why consumers at the 
moment of the purchase use their phones and 
start looking for other similar products.

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so basically malls can offer an another alternative 
and not loose that potential revenue

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we’ve been following these trends closely, 
the stream of clients in malls has not decreased 
so much

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but the revenue stream of shopping malls 
has due to how buyers behave nowadays

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this is a common pain among all Brazilian 
shopping malls, and the opportunity we are 
after with

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Retail Hub who's our partner ochestrating 
all of it that is really hard for a shopping 
mall accomplish on their own.

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Juliana, how malls are seeing all of this 
in Brazil?

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when we started speaking about the project 
with the stores, not only as a marketplace 
but with a bigger vision

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talking about the digitalization of the mall 
as a whole, meaning the mall as a pro-active 
actor

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having a 360 overview and being able to work 
with data so stores can sell more,

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I'd say the feedback has been super positive. 
Great! Final Question. Future. What is next, 
where are we going to?

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The future without a doubt is about digitalization.In 
Brazil online commerce represents 4,5 to 
5% of the total volume transacted

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It is forecasted that the total online retail 
volume within the next 5 years will reach 
9% of the total volume transacted

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That means that nearly 10% of every purchase 
will happen through a digital channel

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that also means that if malls are not part 
of this  they will be constanly loosing revenue

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millennial consumers are more representative 
and with consumption fire power so everything 
points out for a digital future.

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in order for malls generate(+)revenues, better 
serve their customers,increase the average 
ticket, they must become omnichannel marketplaces.

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Juliana, the future of Retail Hub and of 
Shopping malls

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The future is to become a data-oriented company.

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you can only talk about customer experience 
once you understand how to work with the 
data you have available

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in all possible segments, I have no doubts 
that the future is about becoming data-driven 
and knowing how to translate this information

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speaking of malls, how to acquire this data, 
if today the mall's customer is a customer 
of the store in reality

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so the question is, how to capture and leverage 
this data so this is the project we are in 
and believe in.

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Terrific! Fellows, time to sell yourselves.How 
can anyone find you or learn more about VTEX?

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please shoot an email to vendas@vtex.com.br 
we have a dedicated corporate sales team 
here and we have a very good feeling about 
this market

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we have invested a lot in products and in 
partnerships so they can bring this type 
of project to life and we are available for 
a chat, of course.

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My email is contato@retailhub.com.br or juliana@retailhub.com.br

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and I'm Carlos Monteiro, find me on linkedin 
or cm@viince.com